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Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 4:30 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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BPT - Special forces


Please can we get rid of BPT on the Public... it does nothing but create an "us and them" scenario where all the cool kids run around looking like wanna be SAS and then split off to do COOL BPT stuffs leaving the rest of the sections half full and wondering where all the players are.


Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 4:43 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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+1

I dont think BPT is a good idea on the public server at all, even if played "correctly". In most cases, there is simply no need for recon in general on the maps. I dont think we need a dedicated section for this task and as Serjames said, I think BPT in it's form is creating some issues.

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Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 4:47 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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What do you want them replaced with, if anything?

The reason the Patrol Troop is there was to replace the old mish-mash of separate Sniper/Spotter, Engineer, Mortar roles etc which we always had, which usually ended up being lone rambo's. The idea was to roll them into one Section, which actually exists in rl, and give them leadership, making them accountable to Company command. If players don't respect that, I doubt it will make much difference changing the name? Some people just hate conformity / working as a proper team and will always try to be different, so at least this restricts that 'special' group to a limited number and groups them together.

Perhaps you're suggesting getting rid of the specialist roles altogether? In which case, I can see even more moaning about "why you do this? we love being xyz, you hate us so much!".

I can see where you're coming from, but wonder whether better guidelines that are gently enforced would help, rather than removing the option, as people will only do the same thing but using 'proper' Section positions instead? 


Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 5:00 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Apollo wrote:
What do you want them replaced with, if anything?

The reason the Patrol Troop is there was to replace the old mish-mash of separate Sniper/Spotter, Engineer, Mortar roles etc which we always had, which usually ended up being lone rambo's. The idea was to roll them into one Section, which actually exists in rl, and give them leadership, making them accountable to Company command. If players don't respect that, I doubt it will make much difference changing the name? Some people just hate conformity / working as a proper team and will always try to be different, so at least this restricts that 'special' group to a limited number and groups them together.

Perhaps you're suggesting getting rid of the specialist roles altogether? In which case, I can see even more moaning about "why you do this? we love being xyz, you hate us so much!".

I can see where you're coming from, but wonder whether better guidelines that are gently enforced would help, rather than removing the option, as people will only do the same thing but using 'proper' Section positions instead? 

If players can not respect that, maybe they should consider playing on a different server.

I think the entire concept of BPT is broken and it should get removed.


Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 5:52 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Cougar wrote:
The 'concept' isn't broken, the way people treat it is.

Well, in some ways the 'concept' is also broken: To work effectively BPT needs to walk a significant distance from their initial LZ/DZ/insertion point. 
Why? If you have a safe insertion point close to your target already you might just as well insert the entire force!

Due to the "JIP"/trickle-in nature of the public it is very rare that a full/nearly full BPT is able to insert with enough time to actually reach a decent observation point, make observations and then designate a safe LZ for the main force.
It'll be much more likely that the main sections are ready to move out at the same time as BPT. So what happens is that everybody goes to the same LZ and BPT sort of scouts the tip of their noses which is redundant since the main force will roll through any minute anyway.  Since scouting is therefore usually not needed, being the 'spec ops' team becomes  a 'natural' alternative role...


Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 7:11 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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My suggestion would be to remove the naming convention. If people want to dress-up I support that - i might even do it sometimes *grumbles-about-dresscode* 

But I think it's the "special" slot that seems to give people super-human assumptions about their ability as players... THE MOST fun I have in Arma is as a normal grunt getting bossed about in a section working well with other sections.

If one of those normal sections wants to be more tacticool I think that's ok. But it might stop the "rush to the bottom" of the role selection page to GRAB one of the magic slots :-)

god I sound like an old man.... Must be stress

Just to note - there are players that do these roles well - but they appreciate it's a redundant function UNLESS the core troop has full strength sections already filled out. As it is at the moment it seems BPT gets 100 filled and the main troop is struggling for heads / leaders


Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 9:15 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Serjames wrote:
As it is at the moment it seems BPT gets 100 filled and the main troop is struggling for heads / leaders
This really annoys me. I'll look on TS and get all excited about 30+ players on the public. But when I come on, and look at the slot screen there's a full 1-1 but then 1-2 has like 3 people, 1-3 maybe 4 and then there's like 5 guys spread over 2troop and 3troop but towards the bottom it's 4x Whiskey and a full BPT .... oh and maybe a 1-0 signaller and 1-0 medic who both say "nah, I'm not actually leading".

So then, even with 30+ people online, I'll still end up in a severely understrength section/troop and we'll end up either getting annihilated on the larger objectives or we'll be forced to keep grinding the same old repetitive 'starter' towns on the map.

PLEASE, PLEASE consider slotting into a 1-1/1-2 or 1-3 slot. There's just as much -- if not more -- fun to be had by playing in a well filled troop.


Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 9:32 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Cougar wrote:
Is there not a way to lock out positions until the section above is filled? For example 1-2 is locked unless 1-1 is full? The exceptions being Whiskeys and Zulu 1?
I don't think so. However if BI ever get around to releasing their "group manager" thing they use in EndGame (you can technically use it right now but it's not quite yet finished 100%) it me be possible to use that as a reliable basis for that.
Previous attempts at group management (e.g. @AGM) never really worked too well with JIP/MP.


Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 12:28 am     Super secret spam barrier
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in my opinion the root of most public server issues from BPT special needs forces, to having to whitelist kit is that the public isn't moderated the way it ought to be. Again just my opinion but it feels as though the majority of L.Cpls and up with admin/moderator/zeus rights are they guys who have been around the community for long enough that they are bored of, and therefore hardly ever on the public server. Don't get me wrong its great that we can interrupt an admin in the middle of something to restart the server or deal with an issue, but to improve the experience as a whole i think server admins should be people who are on there regularly enough to experience the issues first hand, rather that someone who drops into the pub for 5 mins to deal with something negative.

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Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 10:12 am     Super secret spam barrier
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All good thoughts...

Nulls right (From a different post) you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

We used to run a sniper Spotter combo. Exactly as you suggest. But that just encouraged the lone wolf player...

It was guaranteed to be an inexperienced public player - full ghillie - .50 Cal in hand + AT Titan on his back..... 

I used to deliberately slot into that as Zeus to block it off.

LessThanDave  hit the nail on the head, but it's not just about Mods or admins playing it's also a seasonal thing... Arma just dries up from May to about September... been the same way for 3 years. UK starts to get some nice weather so lots of people try and get out more... (ahhhh daylight !!)

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