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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:49 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:13 am     Super secret spam barrier
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It makes me weep to see that we can fit every single individual military airframe (including trainers and cadets) onto a single poster.

It is scandalous.


Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:50 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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You should see the US ones(s!). Massive massive


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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:58 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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sure why would we want to have any sort of capability at all when it comes to projecting power beyond 3 ft of a camp?


Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:03 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Serjames wrote:
You should see the US ones(s!). Massive massive


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It's a completely different world.

Even the USAF has manpower above and beyond the RAF in terms of personnel per airframe.
For eg, The RAF have a few guys of each trade to look after the entire sqn and they even train 'cross trade' as standard and everyone gets stuck in.

The USAF has a guy for each individual part for each individual airframe. When a US techie avionics guy asks a British Avionics Tech "which part of the avionics do you look after" they can't believe the reply of "all of it, including the weapons aiming systems and radar, oh and anything the other trades need a hand with"

Also, the refuelling and marshalling of the aurcraft is a separate trade in the US. The techies do it in the RAF after/before doing their trade stuff. Hence the term 'liney' (as in flight line)


Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:07 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Sleepingbag wrote:
sure why would we want to have any sort of capability at all when it comes to projecting power beyond 3 ft of a camp?
Actually that is something the RAF is very good at due to the much smaller logistics footprint. See my post above. 

My issue isn't with how we do it but how many aircraft we have. See 'shortage of helicopters in AFG' for a prime example.


Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:47 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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I understand what you mean by the smaller logistical foot print but the issue with the projection of power by the RAF is the fact there are so few airframes.   We have lost Harrier, Jaguar and soon to loose Tornado as well to be replaced by even less air frames. we can have a small foot print but the fact that routinely we can muster around 60/70% of our aircraft to a task, and in the Falklands even worse 50%. Its just a sad state of affairs that we think that more technologies can actually mitigate the advantage of numbers. If we went to war the air war would be over very quickly, its not like we can just knock out 20/ 30 planes a day.  It just leaves a massive big gaping hole in the UK defences as a whole and all for a bit of cost saving. 


200 jag
143 harrier
102 gr 4

455 Total in 2006

137 Typhoon
102 Gr4

239 Total in 2015 with 138  f 35 on order


Still covering the same commitments near enough as in 2006  and as well as that typhoon as not all serviceable because they cant keep up with demands from parts. 


http://www.wired.com/2009/08/think-tank ... n-air-war/

The Edge: Is the Military Dominance of the West Coming to an End?   this one is good at explaining it all. 


Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:00 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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If we go toe to toe with the Great Bear we are screwed.

Russian aircraft is designed to be virtually indestructible. They don't even worry about FOD (foreign object damage) and 'FOD plods' ( where everyone sweeps the airfield to pick up crap) are none existent. Also the Russian pilots can jump in, strap themselves in, start the aircraft and get airborne completely unaided. Just get in and go. You can't do that with western A/C.

(Obviously the pilots can't refuel and 'bomb up' unaided. The aircraft are readied up)

That said, there is a lot to be desired on their maintenance. It's shocking. I read a report that stated significant amounts of Russian aircraft are completely un airworthy.


Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:01 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Not as simple as that, because comparing the UK to the US or Russia or even China is clearly absurd. Compare europe to these groups rather than the UK alone, as that is the geopolitical block that we tend to work in.


Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:04 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Nick Seafort wrote:
Not as simple as that, because comparing the UK to the US or Russia or even China is clearly absurd. Compare europe to these groups rather than the UK alone, as that is the geopolitical block that we tend to work in.

By 'we' I mean the European part of NATO


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