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Suppression

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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:12 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Its not a perfect system, but I truly like it. Just wanted to put it out there since its receiving a lot of negative feedback sometimes. There are ppl who do enjoy it, strangely as it sounds xD


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:24 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Personally I like the system. We can argue over the severity of the blur, or how many near misses it should take to reach it, but on the whole I really enjoy it. I don't think it could be an extra 'fatigue' system with increased weapon sway and maybe some flashing at the edges of vision. The blur really makes me shift to cover. The only time I find it a major pain is when I am driving, but that is usually because we are patrolling in the wrong vehicles (i.e. Wmiks and Jackals etc..). On foot, I enjoy the fact that it can cause panic. In last night's Op, we were ambushed by a PKM gunner manning a roadblock that we had not seen. As soon as he opened up on us from the flank, we all dived for cover. Some got hit, others didn't, but we were majorly suppressed, causing us to relocate behind cover, recover, and then try to find a new firing position with which to engage the PKM gunner from. That there is the whole point of this mod. None of us could just stand there while under sustained fire from a heavy machine gun and just trade shots with the AI. You wouldn't do that in real life, you'd hit the deck, crawl away, and then come up somewhere different from your initial position as the enemy has a fix on your location. Sticking your head up again in the same place would be suicide.

It also means that fewer AI pose a threat. Other clans that know about our suppression have been approaching us in order to use it. It is the larger clan admins that want it as those with 50+ players struggle to find the balance between AI numbers to pose a threat, and the performance of their server. From conversations I've had with other units, their training teams are sick of training people to react to incoming fire, and adjust accordingly, only to see the same players ignoring this entirely in an Op and simply lying in place and engaging the enemy at distance despite round pinging of the ground all around them.

I accept that the system isn't perfect. Personally though, I'd rather be forced to move and find cover, meaning that the enemy can close the gap and push towards us, rather than sitting still and picking the AI off at 400+ meters in a fairly boring turkey shoot. If the suppression mod goes, then take away our scopes then so at least hitting at distance is more difficult.

"Never turn down an ale, who knows if it may be your last."


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:29 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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The suppression mod works very well and does what was expected , you could maybe argue that it works too well with the amount of people that have negative comments about it.but for me it is an awsome mod and should be here to stay.but maybe it would be worth lowering how long the effect lasts to try and find the right balance between what some people see as not enjoyable game play and forcing them to take cover and not being the lone wolf Rambo 


Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:33 am     Super secret spam barrier
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I'd also like to say I enjoy the mod, it has it's limitations but by a large majority I prefer playing with it.

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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:19 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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As promised here's the design criteria for the suppression system, along with an overview of the implementation and some other useful info.

Suppression

The suppression system is designed to simulate one specific combat effect, suppressive fire, where the weight of incoming fire makes it impossible for the receiving side to return effective fire.  It is the tipping point in a fire fight where the losing side is forced to withdraw or be neutralised.  

This is not simulated at all in vanilla Arma, where no matter how much enemy fire is incoming, the effectiveness of outgoing fire remains unaffected.

There is no way in a video game to stimulate the mental state of a combatant and their desire to seek cover rather than risk injury/death.  So we fake suppression by making it increasingly more difficult for a player to return effective fire from their current position, thereby requiring them to either seek cover or maneuver.   This is achieved by making it more difficult for a player to identify the target (to simulate that as the incoming fire builds so does the willingness of the individual to stick their head up and observe the target) and by making their fire less accurate (to simulate the natural desire to point the gun in the vague direction of the enemy and fire, without taking the time to carefully aim and in the process expose themselves to the incoming rounds)

The tactical situation we’re trying to create is to force the player, when under heavy fire, to have to seek cover or withdraw.  If you believe you should be able to fight through the effects, no matter the weight of fire, then you’re missing the entire point of the suppression system.  Its meant to be extremely difficult to return effective fire when heavily suppressed, because you should be withdrawing / maneuvering / seeking cover and not being a stationary target.

Having said all that, it is certainly not a perfect system.  We’re combining a number of visual, animation and ballistic effects in a hope of getting something that forces a player to withdraw, whilst remaining playable.  The balance between these effects and even the effects themselves are fairly arbitrary. It’s entirely possible that there is a better set of effects and factors out there.  Also, it has to be implementable within the current Arma system. Some effects available in other video games are just not achievable in Arma.


The mechanics:

Each round that is fired towards the player, adds a little to the player’s suppression.  The amount that is added is dependent on:
  • The calibre of the round
  • The velocity of the round
  • How close the round passes to the player
  • Whether the round explodes e.g. grenade
  • Whether the player is prone, crouching, standing
  • Whether the player is behind soft or hard cover
  • Whether the player is in deflaide
  • If the player is in a vehicle, then whether the vehicle is armour, fully enclosed etc.

Meanwhile the player’s suppression level is continually reducing, going from max suppression to no suppression in 12 seconds


The effects:

As suppression builds, so does the following:
  • The blurriness of the screen
  • Weapon shake
  • Weapon inaccuracy
  • The level of adrenaline (a natural ephi)

Each incoming round, again dependent on distance, calibre, etc also creates camera shake.

Your ability to recover from fatigue improves when suppressed, so you can sprint further and recover from exhaustion quicker.  This is due to the natural adrenaline


Known issues:

Suppression and vehicles is a little janky.  In some armoured vehicles, the level if suppression builds too rapidly


Effects tried and discarded.

Tunnel vision:  The idea was to limit the amount the player is able to see, by an increasing black/dark border to the screen (in the same way as NVGs work).  This was found to have zero effect on the effectiveness of outgoing fire, as the player only really needed a few pixels in the centre of the screen to accurately engage the enemy.  So it became an ineffective annoyance and was discarded.

Tunnel vision in real life is when the viewer is fixated on an object and loses their awareness of their surroundings.  This is impossible to simulation in Arma, as it would require fixing a player to look only at the enemy fire position.  It would provide a horrid player experience.


AI

Vanilla Arma already includes a suppression system for the AI.  When rounds pass close to an AI unit, their accuracy, rate of fire, reload speed and ability to take any action is adversely affected.   When under fire, the AI regularly take cover and then refuse to move. Anyone who has Zeus’d will have experienced this, with AI becoming very uncooperative after they have taken incoming rounds.

Our suppression system, uses the same suppression values for the incoming rounds, as those used by the vanilla AI suppression system.  In this way we get some level of equality. The difference between firing an AK compared to a PKM at players, will be similar to firing the same weapons at AI.


Zeus

The system has been recently updated to now effect zeus remote controlled units, so the zeus can now better appreciate the weight of incoming player fire.


EDIT:  Added the missing part about AI suppression


Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:25 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Last nights Mid week was the most I've experienced the suppression system in action first hand on a single Op, and got to say it did its job!

Several times I was forced back behind cover, or to break away from a firefight because of the weight of fire, really enjoyed it!

TLS_Cud


Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:47 am     Super secret spam barrier
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I  like the mod as it adds to the immersion as well as increasing the difficulty in firefights and encourages people to get proper cover and really affects your ability to react rambo style.

Ney88


Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:27 am     Super secret spam barrier
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tl;dr -> Blurry screen makes making videos hard. 

I know that this is a minor or no problem at all for the majority of members and it is obviously something that should not be the focus of our systems, but the suppression system also makes creating video content harder. 

In the recent weeks there has been less footage on the YT Channel. This is due to several reasons and the main reason was that I am not attending as many ops as before, but the few footage I got was often hindered or made somewhat unusable by the suppression effects. 

I am not saying or demanding that it should be changed because of this, but it is still something worth mentioning. 

There is no war to end all wars.


Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:47 am     Super secret spam barrier
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On Sunday while 1-2 artacked the airfield I couldn't see s**t due to the dark and nvgs so getting shot at was pretty cool. Firing a 50cal from the WMIK and taking semi accurate return fire I couldn't pinpoint was immersive as hell. Had to get down and gather myself.


Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:06 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Thanks for all the useful feedback in this thread, both positive and negative, but nevertheless still useful.

We’ve taken his on board and made a few changes to the suppression system.

In order to get the balance right between realism and fun, we’ve made the following tweaks:
1. Improve recovery time from suppression
2. Slight reduction in blur at max suppression
3. Slight increase in camera shake when a round passes close


The issues around CQB and suppression are more complex and to be totally honest, I do not believe fully achievable within Arma.  As a prototype, we’ve added a new mechanism for suppression when the firer is very close to the player (ie for building clearance).  The original suppression is still in effect, but considerably reduced, and supplemented with a pseudo tunnel vision effect.  So at close range you will get a significant reduction in blur, weapon shake, etc  but your field of view will become very restricted.  The idea is to enable you to be combat effective, but to greatly reduce your peripheral vision.  This needs to be thoroughly play tested to see if it improves the situation.

The CQB suppression is a test, so any/all feedback welcome.  If it does not prove effective, we'll try something else


Any now the big one….

After a lot of testing with the “invulnerable” Russians, it has become apparent that the vanilla AI suppression system is not working effectively.  The AI only stay suppressed for 2-3 seconds max, and even when suppressed, don’t exactly behave like they are suppressed.  They can still very rapidly and precisely target players.  This leads to issues in CQB and also where vision is obscured e.g. grass

As a solution we have implemented our own suppression system for the AI.  They will now be suppressed for the same time as players, they will suffer from weapon shake, like players, and they will also find it difficult to observe and track targets, like players. 

Initial results look promising, as it both rewards good tactics as well as evening the playing field against the Russians, without unrealistically changing armour values, etc.  Suppressed enemy will return fire, but it will be extremely inaccurate. 

The player suppression changes will go live during tomorrow’s repo update.  The AI suppression system needs a little bit more work / testing, but could potentially also go live tomorrow.


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