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Suppression

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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:25 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Played a couple of Operations with this now and I pretty much hate the current implementation of it. Note that I am not against players being suppressed and the resulting shift in Gameplay and player behavior. But I do hate that getting under fires give me the experience of a 90 year old suffering from cataract. There have been a lot of instances in which the visibility got so bad that I was not able to identify soldiers (enemy or friendly). This is not just annoying, but I also think that it is unrealistic. 

I would rather see effects that are not so heavy on visuals like increased weapon sway when the gun is not supported on something and aimpunch when bullets are hitting/flying nearby on players. 


Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:55 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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The trouble is that there are another group of players that think the weapon sway is too much and prefer more visual effects.  So it's impossible to satisfy all.

The aimpunch is worth looking into, however there is only a finite number of effects that can be achieved within the A3 engine.


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:15 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Had an idea about if there was a possibility for the mission makers to decide on if they wan't to use suppression on their mission. So the idea would be that maybe we have the suppression enabled in operations were we are fighting smaller guerilla groups or patrol ops and have it disabled on larger scale operations where we are fighting russians or some other heavily armed force.

Also if people are not enjoying it maybe disable it on the public as the missions there are not balanced too well around it and public has been generally more about fun then realism.

I don't know how hard this would be to implement but its something to think about.


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:30 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Sorry Arska but I think that's a terrible idea.

We have a common core of settings which apply across the board and therefore generate a consistent and replicable experience. Allowing this to be a pick and mix scenario would screw with that too much IMO.

And removing the suppression from the public means that it's therefore unrepresentative of what we are about on private ops.

With regards the realistic argument, well no it's not realistic. It's a computer game. Otherwise you'd be spending most of the time bored in a hole eating biscuits brown and hoping not to get picked to dig the next long drop. It's all about compromises and what is possible due to the ARMA engine.


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:34 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Yeah I think that settings like medical or suppression need to be universal across the board. 

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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:07 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Reddog wrote:
Sorry Arska but I think that's a terrible idea.

We have a common core of settings which apply across the board and therefore generate a consistent and replicable experience. Allowing this to be a pick and mix scenario would screw with that too much IMO.

And removing the suppression from the public means that it's therefore unrepresentative of what we are about on private ops.

With regards the realistic argument, well no it's not realistic. It's a computer game. Otherwise you'd be spending most of the time bored in a hole eating biscuits brown and hoping not to get picked to dig the next long drop. It's all about compromises and what is possible due to the ARMA engine.
Well was just an idea but maybe we could adjust other difficulty settings.

One thing I have noted at least on the public is how much fire we need to put into more heavily armored targets like the basic Russian infantry. Maybe reducing the amount health of the AI could make it so that we don't need to pump a full mag into one Russian and endup only wounding him

Generally what I have seen is that people have more fun fighting stuff like taleban as they have less armour then the Russians. 


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:10 am     Super secret spam barrier
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From my experience I only get really suppressed when I'm pushing my luck and constantly exposing myself to enemy fire. Suppression is there to make people more careful, the first bullet flying over your head will not immediately mess up your vision and senses, you need to be shot at for some time before you become sort of combat ineffective. From a Zeus perspective nothing is more annoying than spraying over the head of someone with a PKM and he's too reckless to get into cover because he wants to kill you. Even with our current suppression system I'm constantly experiencing stuff like this, when people get into a prolonged 1vs1 fight, and if I decide to shoot to kill then everyone starts to complain. 

But then again suppression is a delicate topic and exactly because there isn't a universal solution I think we'd need to constantly look into feedbacks and possible ways of tweaking the system, especially when we are tweaking other aspects of the gameplay like time to kill etc.
On the last Patrol OP I've noticed that even these Taliban in pyjamas can soak up quite a few rounds before dying. Perhaps with such an effective suppression system we could make the AI a bit less sturdy.

In my opinion it would be ideal if suppression was based on the calibre and the range, when a 5.56 / 5.45 wouldn't have the same effect as a 7.62×54mmR or a 12.7 and perhaps the visual effect would work like an NVG, blurring the peripheral vision and giving a small hole to look through so people wouldn't get completely lost. But I'm aware that there are limited options available within the A3 engine. 

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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:24 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Sánta wrote:
From my experience I only get really suppressed when I'm pushing my luck and constantly exposing myself to enemy fire. Suppression is there to make people more careful, the first bullet flying over your head will not immediately mess up your vision and senses, you need to be shot at for some time before you become sort of combat ineffective. From a Zeus perspective nothing is more annoying than spraying over the head of someone with a PKM and he's too reckless to get into cover because he wants to kill you. Even with our current suppression system I'm constantly experiencing stuff like this, when people get into a prolonged 1vs1 fight, and if I decide to shoot to kill then everyone starts to complain. 

But then again suppression is a delicate topic and exactly because there isn't a universal solution I think we'd need to constantly look into feedbacks and possible ways of tweaking the system, especially when we are tweaking other aspects of the gameplay like time to kill etc.
On the last Patrol OP I've noticed that even these Taliban in pyjamas can soak up quite a few rounds before dying. Perhaps with such an effective suppression system we could make the AI a bit less sturdy.

In my opinion it would be ideal if suppression was based on the calibre and the range, when a 5.56 / 5.45 wouldn't have the same effect as a 7.62×54mmR or a 12.7 and perhaps the visual effect would work like an NVG, blurring the peripheral vision and giving a small hole to look through so people wouldn't get completely lost. But I'm aware that there are limited options available within the A3 engine. 

I think that in some cases the current effect makes it worse. I have seen or experienced this in situations that were similar to the one you described.

A PKM/Machine Gunner opens fire on you and is not hitting/killing you instantly. Your vision goes blurry. You may have a very general idea from where you are getting shot at (general direction), but you will have a hard time or simply be unable to identify the location of the shooter because your vision is not sufficient enough. You will also often be somewhat disorientated, which can lead to making mistakes when trying to get into cover that can possibly shield you. As soon as the visual blur is fading, the player will naturally try to get eyes on the enemy in order to take him our, or to communicate the position to to his Section.


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:14 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Actually the suppression system is based on calibre of weapon, velocity of the round, number of rounds and a load of other factors.  

Over the next few days I'll put together a brief explanation of the current system.

One of the design criteria was to make weapons that are used for suppresion (GPMG, PKMs, etc), far more effective at suppressing than say an L85 or AK.  These then become something to fear, and a priorty target.  Even as far back as WW2, the MG34/42 were the highest priority target, just for the fact they could create so much chaos by dominating ground and suppressing a section or platoon.


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:35 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Oh really? To be honest so far I couldn't tell if there was a difference but I rarely got suppressed. If I do then I usually just duck for cover and cry for my mom. I should get myself exposed to suppression more often to understand it...

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