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Suppression

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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:30 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Sorry Arska but I think that's a terrible idea.

We have a common core of settings which apply across the board and therefore generate a consistent and replicable experience. Allowing this to be a pick and mix scenario would screw with that too much IMO.

And removing the suppression from the public means that it's therefore unrepresentative of what we are about on private ops.

With regards the realistic argument, well no it's not realistic. It's a computer game. Otherwise you'd be spending most of the time bored in a hole eating biscuits brown and hoping not to get picked to dig the next long drop. It's all about compromises and what is possible due to the ARMA engine.


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:34 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Yeah I think that settings like medical or suppression need to be universal across the board. 

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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:07 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Reddog wrote:
Sorry Arska but I think that's a terrible idea.

We have a common core of settings which apply across the board and therefore generate a consistent and replicable experience. Allowing this to be a pick and mix scenario would screw with that too much IMO.

And removing the suppression from the public means that it's therefore unrepresentative of what we are about on private ops.

With regards the realistic argument, well no it's not realistic. It's a computer game. Otherwise you'd be spending most of the time bored in a hole eating biscuits brown and hoping not to get picked to dig the next long drop. It's all about compromises and what is possible due to the ARMA engine.
Well was just an idea but maybe we could adjust other difficulty settings.

One thing I have noted at least on the public is how much fire we need to put into more heavily armored targets like the basic Russian infantry. Maybe reducing the amount health of the AI could make it so that we don't need to pump a full mag into one Russian and endup only wounding him

Generally what I have seen is that people have more fun fighting stuff like taleban as they have less armour then the Russians. 


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:10 am     Super secret spam barrier
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From my experience I only get really suppressed when I'm pushing my luck and constantly exposing myself to enemy fire. Suppression is there to make people more careful, the first bullet flying over your head will not immediately mess up your vision and senses, you need to be shot at for some time before you become sort of combat ineffective. From a Zeus perspective nothing is more annoying than spraying over the head of someone with a PKM and he's too reckless to get into cover because he wants to kill you. Even with our current suppression system I'm constantly experiencing stuff like this, when people get into a prolonged 1vs1 fight, and if I decide to shoot to kill then everyone starts to complain. 

But then again suppression is a delicate topic and exactly because there isn't a universal solution I think we'd need to constantly look into feedbacks and possible ways of tweaking the system, especially when we are tweaking other aspects of the gameplay like time to kill etc.
On the last Patrol OP I've noticed that even these Taliban in pyjamas can soak up quite a few rounds before dying. Perhaps with such an effective suppression system we could make the AI a bit less sturdy.

In my opinion it would be ideal if suppression was based on the calibre and the range, when a 5.56 / 5.45 wouldn't have the same effect as a 7.62×54mmR or a 12.7 and perhaps the visual effect would work like an NVG, blurring the peripheral vision and giving a small hole to look through so people wouldn't get completely lost. But I'm aware that there are limited options available within the A3 engine. 

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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:24 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Sánta wrote:
From my experience I only get really suppressed when I'm pushing my luck and constantly exposing myself to enemy fire. Suppression is there to make people more careful, the first bullet flying over your head will not immediately mess up your vision and senses, you need to be shot at for some time before you become sort of combat ineffective. From a Zeus perspective nothing is more annoying than spraying over the head of someone with a PKM and he's too reckless to get into cover because he wants to kill you. Even with our current suppression system I'm constantly experiencing stuff like this, when people get into a prolonged 1vs1 fight, and if I decide to shoot to kill then everyone starts to complain. 

But then again suppression is a delicate topic and exactly because there isn't a universal solution I think we'd need to constantly look into feedbacks and possible ways of tweaking the system, especially when we are tweaking other aspects of the gameplay like time to kill etc.
On the last Patrol OP I've noticed that even these Taliban in pyjamas can soak up quite a few rounds before dying. Perhaps with such an effective suppression system we could make the AI a bit less sturdy.

In my opinion it would be ideal if suppression was based on the calibre and the range, when a 5.56 / 5.45 wouldn't have the same effect as a 7.62×54mmR or a 12.7 and perhaps the visual effect would work like an NVG, blurring the peripheral vision and giving a small hole to look through so people wouldn't get completely lost. But I'm aware that there are limited options available within the A3 engine. 

I think that in some cases the current effect makes it worse. I have seen or experienced this in situations that were similar to the one you described.

A PKM/Machine Gunner opens fire on you and is not hitting/killing you instantly. Your vision goes blurry. You may have a very general idea from where you are getting shot at (general direction), but you will have a hard time or simply be unable to identify the location of the shooter because your vision is not sufficient enough. You will also often be somewhat disorientated, which can lead to making mistakes when trying to get into cover that can possibly shield you. As soon as the visual blur is fading, the player will naturally try to get eyes on the enemy in order to take him our, or to communicate the position to to his Section.


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:14 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Actually the suppression system is based on calibre of weapon, velocity of the round, number of rounds and a load of other factors.  

Over the next few days I'll put together a brief explanation of the current system.

One of the design criteria was to make weapons that are used for suppresion (GPMG, PKMs, etc), far more effective at suppressing than say an L85 or AK.  These then become something to fear, and a priorty target.  Even as far back as WW2, the MG34/42 were the highest priority target, just for the fact they could create so much chaos by dominating ground and suppressing a section or platoon.


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:35 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Oh really? To be honest so far I couldn't tell if there was a difference but I rarely got suppressed. If I do then I usually just duck for cover and cry for my mom. I should get myself exposed to suppression more often to understand it...

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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:12 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Its not a perfect system, but I truly like it. Just wanted to put it out there since its receiving a lot of negative feedback sometimes. There are ppl who do enjoy it, strangely as it sounds xD


Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:24 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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Personally I like the system. We can argue over the severity of the blur, or how many near misses it should take to reach it, but on the whole I really enjoy it. I don't think it could be an extra 'fatigue' system with increased weapon sway and maybe some flashing at the edges of vision. The blur really makes me shift to cover. The only time I find it a major pain is when I am driving, but that is usually because we are patrolling in the wrong vehicles (i.e. Wmiks and Jackals etc..). On foot, I enjoy the fact that it can cause panic. In last night's Op, we were ambushed by a PKM gunner manning a roadblock that we had not seen. As soon as he opened up on us from the flank, we all dived for cover. Some got hit, others didn't, but we were majorly suppressed, causing us to relocate behind cover, recover, and then try to find a new firing position with which to engage the PKM gunner from. That there is the whole point of this mod. None of us could just stand there while under sustained fire from a heavy machine gun and just trade shots with the AI. You wouldn't do that in real life, you'd hit the deck, crawl away, and then come up somewhere different from your initial position as the enemy has a fix on your location. Sticking your head up again in the same place would be suicide.

It also means that fewer AI pose a threat. Other clans that know about our suppression have been approaching us in order to use it. It is the larger clan admins that want it as those with 50+ players struggle to find the balance between AI numbers to pose a threat, and the performance of their server. From conversations I've had with other units, their training teams are sick of training people to react to incoming fire, and adjust accordingly, only to see the same players ignoring this entirely in an Op and simply lying in place and engaging the enemy at distance despite round pinging of the ground all around them.

I accept that the system isn't perfect. Personally though, I'd rather be forced to move and find cover, meaning that the enemy can close the gap and push towards us, rather than sitting still and picking the AI off at 400+ meters in a fairly boring turkey shoot. If the suppression mod goes, then take away our scopes then so at least hitting at distance is more difficult.

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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:29 pm     Super secret spam barrier
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The suppression mod works very well and does what was expected , you could maybe argue that it works too well with the amount of people that have negative comments about it.but for me it is an awsome mod and should be here to stay.but maybe it would be worth lowering how long the effect lasts to try and find the right balance between what some people see as not enjoyable game play and forcing them to take cover and not being the lone wolf Rambo 


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