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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:14 am     Super secret spam barrier
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For JTACs/FAC's and Pilots All over the World


Pen and paper.

There is no war to end all wars.


Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:00 am     Super secret spam barrier
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And after all this the pilot replies "Yeah, erm could you just put a marker on the map." Happens everytime.

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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:48 am     Super secret spam barrier
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MyCatSaid wrote:
And after all this the pilot replies "Yeah, erm could you just put a marker on the map." Happens everytime.

Yeah.

Problem with those 9-liners is that you cant do them on fly when you are alone. So you can only do them when you are a in a jet or a heli that has two seats, or you have to do the entire 9-liner thing before you actally start from the base.


Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:20 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Towe1ey wrote:
Me too Raptor... We tried it, we barely practiced it and were able to get them off pretty damn fast. As a pilot, knowing everything I need to know without the constant banter back and forth over the radio to get the right details, and the FAC, knowing he's not going to have a bomb dropped on his head was nice.

They're great for sure, but I doubt most will agree.

Indeed,

I remember when we did some small sessions, were we tried out the possibilities of 9-liners fit for the 3CB and in this session alone it worked pretty well. Last sunday we kinds did 9-liners, but it was not following a ordered procedure. I think if we would establish some kind of standard, this would not only improve the quality, but would also make it a bit faster.


Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:14 am     Super secret spam barrier
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Back in ye olde days, we did some little session (Towe1ey was there) and we tried out to find something that actually works. We ended up with two basic things. A 3CB version of a 9-liner and a talkthrough.


Not all the information in those 9-liners are actually important at all and some information is not always important. So with what we ended up was some kind of 7-liner. If I recall it correctlx it looked like this

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1. Target Coordinates
e.g. 001-002. With the AGM Map tools, you can also make it more precise with 8 figure grids like 0016-0027.

2. Target Elevation
e.g. 100m

3. Target Description
e.g. Enemy section, static

4. IP/BP
e.g. Initial Point for fixed wing, battle points for rotary wing from where the attack should start.

5. Ordanance
e.g. Rockets only

6. Mark
e.g. Red Smoke

7. Egress
e.g. North-East

8. Other information
e.g. Friendly infantry close to north

In a lot of cases you would probably end up only using 7 of those lines. Some information like the position of friendly troops, or of the target is on a slope is not always important. So in most cases you can probably just leave line 8 out and only mention stuff that is actually important.

This procedurw however can only be done when you have a vehicle that is manned with two people. A single pilot has no realistic chance to catch and process all the data while flying. So you would really need to have the vehicle who is doing the airstrike manned with a pilot and a co-pilot. The other option would be that the pilot is static in base and confirms the information there and will start after that is done.


The second thing was a talkthrough. The good thing about that is that it can also work with a single pilot in a vehicle. You would designate a IP and try to guide the pilot from there to the target.


Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:29 am     Super secret spam barrier
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clyde wrote:
I really think you do have a chance to note the information given to you as a pilot, especially in a helicopter as you can just stop and hover when you're ready to receive the 9 line, but also in a jet if you're high enough and far enough away from the target area (which you should be anyways until you've been called in). The FAC shouldn't be giving the 9 line to the pilot until the pilot is ready to receive it.

As a Pilot you will rarely have the chance to hover, unless you are in a really safe area. Believe me we tried it out with a single person and it is just very impractical to do. Also for CAS we mostly use the F/A 18 which already has two seats. Also in Operations helicopters will also have a pilot and a co-pilot. Having one person recieving the information and the other one controlling the vehicle is much more practica, safe and most importantly faster.


Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:12 am     Super secret spam barrier
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clyde wrote:
Mefirst wrote:
Also in Operations helicopters will also have a pilot and a co-pilot. Having one person recieving the information and the other one controlling the vehicle is much more practica, safe and most importantly faster.


This is true but that doesn't mean it can't be done without having a co-pilot.

It can, but you need the perfect conditions for it and as well are know, those things rarely happen. :)


A talkthrough is a good alternative for a 9-line like call with a single pilot.


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